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/r/HipHopHeads Census - HipHop

/r/HipHopHeads Census - HipHop


/r/HipHopHeads Census

Posted: 31 Mar 2017 06:57 PM PDT

Been a while since the last one and I've seen some request for it lately.

Shouts out to /r/IndieHeads for their amazing timing. They put theirs out right when I was about to make the form so I was able to KMT err steal err use a lot of their questions.


CLICK HERE FOR THE SURVEY


Survey will be up for about a week. Will post the results here once its done.

submitted by /u/Chriscftb97
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Album of the Year 2016 #27: Frank Ocean - Endless

Posted: 03 Apr 2017 12:16 PM PDT

This review sponsored by: Not Releasing Your Album and/or Posting Your Review When You Were Supposed To and Saying Nothing About It Until Way Later

Artist: Frank Ocean

Album: Endless

* Please see tracklist footnote at bottom of review before reading, there's some recent changes in opinion re: the tracklist that you may not be aware of.

Listen at: Apple Music


Background: by /u/SDJ67

Frank Ocean spent most of his youth in New Orleans before moving to California to pursue songwriting. There's not much more personal background I feel the need to give here. Frank is a storyteller and his music speaks for itself. Whatever you need to know, he'll tell you. Or rather, he'll take you there in the music.

Frank released his debut project Nostalgia, Ultra in 2011, a mixtape he self-released after frustrations with his label. At the time, he was perhaps best known as a member of the Odd Future collective. But the vivid lyricism, emotion-laden vocals, and unique genre-mixing sounds of Nostalgia soon began earning him more fans of his own accord. Ocean was in motion.

Loosie "Thinkin 'Bout You" became a hit among fans and blogs online before the song even saw an official release. Frank was soon collaborating with the likes of Jay-Z and Kanye West on their album Watch the Throne. He announced his debut album Channel Orange with a mysterious video in early June 2012, soon followed by the nearly 10-minute long single "Pyramids". The album received critical praise, saw Frank's profile grow further, and culminated in a Grammy win for the singer.

Save for a few collaborations and tumblr posts, Frank Ocean then went quiet for nearly three years. In spring 2015, he updated his blog with a photo of himself next to a pile of magazines and a mysterious caption referencing "two versions" and July 2015. The month came and went without any album, magazine or word from Frank.

A year later, August 2016 began with Frank Ocean fans huddled around their computers or phones, carefully watching a sporadic and mysterious video stream of an unidentified warehouse with Frank woodworking within. After multiple starts and stops and a New York Times-reported release date that passed without any word from Frank once more, the live-stream re-appeared on August 19th. This time the video stream featured new music, and culminated in the release of Endless, a visual album exclusively on Apple Music. The next day saw the release of another Frank Ocean project, but that's another story.


Review/Analysis: by /u/SDJ67

Overshadowed by the more formal release of its sister project Blonde and constrained by the nature of its visual format (never getting an official audio release), Endless hasn't received the recognition it deserves as one of 2016's best albums. What at first may appear to be a scattered collection of B-sides and studio cuts, upon closer inspection reveals itself to be Frank's most experimental and varied project to date.

The album opens with a slightly electronic, seemingly German voice speaking:

With this Apple appliance, you can capture live videos,

Still motion pictures shot at high frequency

Blurring, blurring the line...

before being cut off as Frank's voice enters, crooning the opening lines of The Isley Brothers' classic "At Your Best (You Are Love)" gently over airy synths:

When I feel

what I feel,

sometimes it's hard to tell you so

This first minute of the project illustrates the unique dichotomy of contrasting ideas and sounds present throughout the entire album: romantic reflection and self-questioning contrasted with a more confident and braggy side of Frank than we've previously seen; understated guitar-based instrumentals sharing a project with experimental electronic production; the artist pushing his vocals into many opposing directions from track to track. And all this not on a conventional album, but within a single 45-minute black-and-white video depicting the artist woodworking alongside himself exclusively released on Apple Music (which seems to be knowingly referenced in the opening "Apple appliance"/"motion pictures" lines). There's a lot going on here, intentionally challenging the listener's expectations, and it's a lot to take in upon first listen.

• MUSICAL & VOCAL VARIETY:

At the core of Endless is its music and the way Frank pairs it with his vocals. With seemingly less creative constraints than a more traditional album, Endless employs an Isley Brothers cover, rap & rap-influenced delivery, multiple instrumentals, brief spoken interludes, and a strange, 7-minute long spoken outro seemingly sampled directly from a German artist. And even the more conventional songs vary greatly from track-to-track, as far as both vocals and production go.

At times, all this diversity can affect how cohesive the project feels, a minor negative that should be acknowledged. But the way the project wholly embraces the variety and experimentation, coupled with small musical transitions between tracks, greatly minimizes any real negative effect the lack of cohesion has on the actual listening experience.

From the moment it enters, Frank's voice is center stage. The gentle synths of "At Your Best" serve only to complement the singer's voice, which continues to be the main attraction throughout Endless. "Alabama" finds Frank singing in bursts over a simple piano-based backing. "U.N.I.T.Y." is a stand-out, finding Frank rapping with nonchalant confidence before building to a powerful croon. "Comme Des Garçons" is a short track that desperately leaves you wanting more, with an even shorter outro that could easily be an incredibly engaging full-length song by itself.

Herein lies a primary feeling of listening to Endless: as Frank dabbles in and out of numerous styles - many of which are new to him - the listener is left thinking of all the different directions that beg to be explored further by Frank as an artist. There's at least four different "sounds" introduced by Frank here that could easily be expanded to a full album. Blonde at times seems to further explore the minimalist guitar conceit of "Rushes"/"Higgs", but the others are so far confined to a handful of minutes on this peculiar visual album.

For example, woozy joint "U.N.I.T.Y" and instrumental "In Here Somewhere" both feature the familiar hip-hop staple that are rattling hi-hats, which have been rather absent from most all of Ocean's previous production. Hi-hats pop up again on "Slide On Me", this time paired with acoustic guitar for a unique effect, as well as the break-down of "Deathwish".

After a number of the early tracks being dominated by Frank's voice, the middle stretch of the album begins to cede some of the spotlight to the production, including numerous instrumentals and more sparse tracks with extended outros. "Wither" is among the most serious and emotional tracks on the album, complemented by patient production composed of guitar, bass, and gentle female backing vocals. Guitar-driven production is again used for intimate effect in "Rushes" and "Higgs" , as well as the more upbeat "Slide On Me". This is countered nicely by tracks like "Mitsubishi Sony" and "Rushes To" which both feature experimental production to great effect, as well as "In Here Somewhere" and the latter portion of "Deathwish (ASR)", both unique electronic instrumentals (a bit reminiscent of James Blake) that utilize vocal samples to create a very compelling atmosphere. If the album has a weak section, some of the looser moments such as "Hublots", "Florida" and the instrumental "Rushes To" feel unnecessary, but are nonetheless interesting.

While the production covers impressive ground over the course of the project, Frank's voice is still the most memorable component. He pushes his voice in an impressive variety of different directions, including brief but successful endeavors into rapping, nearly wailing in a stand-out performance on "Higgs", and the many different flows he utilizes. (From the propulsive rap-influenced patterns of "Slide on Me" to the swaying rhythm of "Sideways" to the casual nature of "Rushes", no two flows are similar here.)

However, perhaps the most significant sonic aspect of the album doesn't originate from Frank's own performance, but rather the arrangement of it thereafter: Endless very frequently finds Frank singing over himself. It's as if he's competing for space on his own tracks - at times creatively or mentally at odds with himself. This is very apparent on the first full original track "Alabama", which begins with Frank's lines directly overlapping themselves and continues in the very next track, the brief spoken interlude "Mine", that finds the two short lines almost immediately beginning to loop over themselves. Frank continues to place overlapping vocals throughout the album in varying degrees, appearing prominently in the opening of "Slide on Me" and the penultimate track "Higgs" among others. Even the rather straightforward cover "At Your Best" sees Frank's voice drifting in the background two-thirds of the way through, singing "n*ggas goin' in" fairly out of place before the sentimental original lyrics return. Not only does this effect cleverly mirror the visuals of Frank working alongside himself, but the confusing effect of overlapped vocals gains some more thematic meaning when considered with Frank's sharp and revealing lyrics.

• LYRICS, IMAGERY & THEMES:

It is Frank's sharp lyricism that keeps the project from ending up appearing too scattered among its disparate musical stylings, instead appearing as a musical manifestation of its artist's mind. Endless is as multi-faceted and ever-changing as Frank is.

Like its sister project, Blonde, Endless finds Frank a more personal songwriter than his previous projects, the surreal and narrative style of many Channel Orange songs wholly absent. But unlike the more focused lyrics on Blonde which are centered primarily on specific personal experiences, many of the songs in Endless are more scattered and far less linear, with Frank still searching his own thoughts and feelings.

In this way, many tracks on Endless take on an almost stream of thought viewpoint, wandering between different topics and emotions. Frank has many things on his mind at once - he's processing growing older, fame, and serious romantic relationships, while his thoughts often drift back to the past. This lyrical format is very much in line with other artistic choices, such as Frank singing over himself. The numerous trains of thought literally overlap. The variety of topics addressed are also mirrored in the diverse production, shifting from gentler, slower production accompanying more reflective and emotional tracks to more energetic, flamboyant beats as Frank is boasting and confident.

Throughout Endless, Frank often employs impressionistic tendencies in his lyricism. He's leaned toward this style at times before, but he doubles down on it here. Narrative storytelling featured on Channel Orange tracks such as "Pyramids", "Super Rich Kids" and "Bad Religion" is wholly absent. In its place are beautiful, impressionistic series of phrases such as:

Still and in full strides just the same,

keeping us warm,

walking in straight lines,

talking to sleep at night,

coddled and pacified,

our versions of mothers

("Higgs")

Frank does an excellent job at using detailed, brief imagery such as this to convey the larger sensory and emotional impression of his experiences, rather than directly describing them.

Despite the less linear lyricism, Frank is very self-aware, frequently analysing and reflecting on his life, past and present, in ways both familiar and new to the singer's work.

As with his previous projects, Endless carries with it a feeling of nostalgia at times, an emotion which Frank has proved himself a master at wielding. He reflects on the past throughout the project, sometimes briefly and other times in greater detail, such as the entirety of "Alabama":

Duplex in New Orleans east

I was writing out everything

Things I would tell nobody

Some things I didn't even tell me

Sleeping on my back, my body would wake up after me

My barber fresh out penitentiary

The alcohol was stinging me

My four cousins stayed with me, stayed with us

One was in the shower, my aunt in law come over to fuss and fight

So she get out in cutoffs and a wifebeater

Barefeet and braless, titties swinging

She was seventeen then

Vaseline and Reebok classics

Take the bully on the greenest grasses

Her name was Renny, we was cool after

Matthew had some pairs of Air Maxes

Clarky had them road rashes

Lost your virgin on an air mattress

Had the texturizer, feeling unnatural

Frank's selection of details here is superb - each specific reference to a person, thing or action serves a specific purpose, including establishing a sense of place or time and creating a sense of intimacy to Frank's experiences and emotions. The memories become vivid despite the only brief amount of actual description. This also happens to be one of the most prominent examples of the vocal overlapping, which creates a nearly overwhelming feeling at first - like memories flooding back in all of a sudden.

Despite covering some familiar territory, we also see more sides of Frank on Endless, which finds himself more self-assured and having grown/changed since the past. The unrequited love of Channel Orange has given way to discussion of more serious relationships. "This is so new to me, having you around," he sings on "Higgs" about a more significant romantic relationship. Frank is also occasionally pondering settling down or entering into a serious relationship. Most prominently on "Wither", he sings about having children and growing old with someone in some of Frank's most painfully beautiful lyrics to date. "Sideways" finds him considering "all this hotel livin' / might as well pay the mortgage what I'm spending" and he's "finna move a n*gga out his mama's house" in "Commes des Garçons". "Rushes" sees him on the experienced side of a relationship, at times offering perspective (such as "you'll live a life anew" and "infatuation's your rush") and gas money to another.

Also new to Frank's repertoire is the way he sings about his career and the creative process directly. There's numerous references to Frank's worth ethic, such as "I kept it underground, I focus" and "I never let a random motherfucker shoot the B-roll" on "U.N.I.T.Y", as well as on "Slide on Me" and Sideways". More significant is the introduction of Frank acknowledging his fame, which surfaces as both braggadocio:

"Said the dick long as a swan neck

Put some real swans in the pond then

Fell asleep in the foreign

...Bet we sell the biggest out next week"

  • ("Sideways")

"You still are no match, you get no rematch

Boy, you missed your moment"

  • ("U.N.I.T.Y.")

"You still behind like ancestors...

You ain't got no muscles that big...

Wrong side of average"

  • ("Slide on Me")

as well as many references to those who are envious of his success:

"Too many hands waitin' for my downfall

They're like "something's gotta give"

  • ("Slide on Me")

"When I'm up they gon' hate

When I'm down they gon' celebrate"

  • ("Sideways")

"Yeah they watching my fence

Like they next to my kin"

  • ("Mitsubishi Sony")

With the increased confidence, Frank also has lots of fun with wordplay across Endless. "Commes Des Garçons" alone is filled with it, such as "All this drillin got the dick feelin like a power tool" and "That's your business and I'm off when I'm on ya, / Like holidays I get off on ya". Even the titular reference to a fashion label becomes a play on words, combining with the first part of the hook to form the phrase "Feelings come, feelings go, / [like boys]."

There are certainly many serious moments as well, and among all that, Endless finds Frank asking a lot of questions in his lyrics:

"What could I do to know you better than I do now? / What can I do to love you more than I do now?" ("Alabama")

"What if we decide to live by choice?" ("Higgs")

"Is it a death wish / to float off helpless? / Leave myself at the mercy of you" ("Deathwish (ASR)")

"Who was fuckin' with ya? / Really brothers when you needed that?" ("U.N.I.T.Y")

"Are you with me?" ("Deathwish (ASR)")

"How come the ecstasy always depresses me so?" ("Mine")

In "Rushes", Frank also asks a question directed at an unspecified person: "Tell me what you need from me, gas money?" Sung in a gentle, quieter tone than those around it, the line sticks out from the first listen. It's a personal moment that is both succinct and memorable, and portrays Frank as an active part of the scene he is painting with his lyrics. We aren't directly told who Frank is speaking to or what the context of the situation is, but that question nonetheless works marvelously to inform many of the emotions present in the song.

This use of questions - which appear with frequency - fosters a feeling of uncertainty that is felt in many of the songs. Even as he has grown confident as an artist, he still has his personal doubts about himself and his relationships. He tackles issues of trust throughout, most prominently in "Deathwish (ASR)", and moments of discontent pop up, such as in Higgs ("wake me up in a week", "this time I'm waiting for a rush"). These questions and uncertainty also help Endless feel incredibly present - Frank isn't only singing of his past experiences, but rather is very much in the moment, looking backward in order to inform his current choices. "I ain't felt this way in years," he croons on "Rushes," though it appears this time things will be different.

How Frank incorporates these various ideas is important - not long on "Rushes" after lyrics that suggest a dysfunctional relationship and background vocals repeating "help me up, help me", Frank croons "I love the way you make me feel." Many of these contrasting emotions and themes all co-exist within the same song. Again, nothing here is black and white. As with the overlapping vocals and impressionistic lyrics previously discussed, the variety of contrasting themes and emotions Frank places next to each other reflect the chaos and uncertainty that everyone faces as they try to navigate the complexity of relationships, careers and simply being alive.

• VISUALS:

While the songs themselves may draw the most attention, the visual format cannot be ignored and is central to fully analyzing Endless.

Ocean uses the unique video format to his advantage, as a means of blurring together all the disparate musical stylings and ideas into a single, 45-minute long experience. The way this washes over the listener is lost to an extent when listening via an audio bootleg, where the ability to jump around to favorite tracks takes away from the creative audio flourishes surrounding them. The album was definitely conceived to be experienced as a whole entity (as evidenced from the lack of formal track times ever being released), and benefits greatly from doing so.

Further and perhaps more significantly, the video component adds an entire additional thematic level to the project.

When considering the visuals, Endless is about the act of creation, and more specifically the cyclical nature of being an artist in the public eye. Frank himself (and any musician in general) spends years crafting an album - it's a very personal & hands-on process - while people watch in anticipation and track his moves. Endless presents this personal process using the literally "hands-on" process of Frank crafting the staircase as a metaphor, while we all literally watch. We usually only mostly see the finished product, but Endless forces us to watch every painstaking step. Then, as it's finally complete, Frank enjoys a very brief moment of reflection as he observes and climbs his creation, before the long process of creation immediately starts over. The cyclical nature of this creative process is right there in the title - Endless - as well as the way the project starts and ends with the same vocals and images.

This reading of the visuals adds to the music itself as well. Frank's lyrics aren't just a reflection of the many things on his mind, they're a representation of his mind during the creative process. All these emotions and thoughts are being raised and stirred as he attempts to channel certain ones into his music. We're hearing a musical representation of how the artist brings all these disparate musical influences and a variety of emotions/experiences into a single piece of art. This human element can't be removed from the activity of creation, even with the high-profile nature of Frank's music, as the creator is just as dynamic, imperfect and complex as the rest of us.

•IN SUMMARY…

Due to the very nature of Endless, it is not as cohesive an album as its sister project Blonde. But it succeeds in nearly every other measure, providing a unique and engaging listening experience that reveals great musical and conceptual depth upon continued listening. Album highlights include the catchy, rhythmic tracks "U.N.I.T.Y", "Slide On Me", & "Comme Des Garçons", guitar-driven "Rushes" & "Higgs", and contemplative moments "Wither" & "Deathwish (ASR)" - though the project benefits from being listened to as a singular work. Frank's vocals are very strong and more dynamic than ever, backed by production that pushes the singer into new territory. The visuals are interesting, well-executed and memorable, though certainly take a back seat to the music itself.

Ultimately, the many ideas and musical components within Endless come together to create an album that is undoubtedly among the best of 2016 and a worthy addition to Frank Ocean's impressive catalogue. While its release format has prevented the project from receiving wider attention, in some ways this results in the project feeling that much more personal - a special gift just for those of us watching closely and waiting through every moment of the creative process, as Frank quietly builds his next work of art.


Favorite Lyrics: by /u/SDJ67

You still are no match, you get no rematch

Boy, you missed your moment.

Parousing the MoMA

I'm all on my lonely, burst in tears

On his shoulder and it's so cold 'cause he's sculpture

Where's the shaman ayahuasca

I had What's App'd him for atonement

- "U.N.I.T.Y."

All this drillin' got the dick feelin' like a power tool

Finna move a nigga out his momma house, now that's a power move

- "Comme Des Garçons"

If that's a lease, least it looks cool on ya

- "Comme Des Garçons"

Hope a garden grows where we dance this afternoon

Hope our children walk by spring when flowers bloom

Hope they'll get to see my color

Know that I've enjoyed sunshine

Pray they'll get to see me wither

- "Wither"

I'm just all day running numbers

How the fuck you think I live?

Too many hands waitin' for my downfall

They're like "something's gotta give"

- "Slide on me"

Is it a death wish to doze off helpless?

Leave myself at the mercy of you

- "Deathwish (ASR)"

Tell me what you need from me, gas money?

- "Rushes"

First I was rushing for a wait

This time I'm waiting for a rush

- "Rushes"

All this time I knew

That average was something to fall back on

After genius ends

- "Higgs"


Discussion:

  • Have you watched the video since it first was released? Do you think the album benefits from the video format?

  • Has your opinion on Endless changed at all over time since it was released? How?

  • How did Endless compare to Blonde for you? How does Endless hold up among Frank's discography as a whole?

  • Any standout tracks or favorite sound/style choices from this album? Favorite Lyrics I didn't mention?

  • Did the unusual rollout in the weeks before affect your perspective/feelings about this project at all?

  • What's your favorite outfit Frank wears during the video? (Here's some screenshots for all you fake Frank stans who have yet to memorize all his wardrobe choices ever.)

  • Does anyone have an extra magazine they wanna give me? ;)


* Tracklist footnote:

FYI - Few tracklist breakdowns online are entirely accurate, and there honestly appears to still be some confusion. Genius has the most accurate breakdown of the tracklist, which I am using for this review. The only place I find Genius to be currently inaccurate is "Florida" - I believe the brief lyrics there to be part of "Deathwish (ASR)", with "Florida" being the ~minute of wordless crooning just before it. Track times listed on wikipedia and elsewhere are far more inaccurate at places and don't appear to have been updated since the project was very initially released.

Notably, there are recent changes in opinion regarding the final few tracks beginning with "Rushes" that some of you may still be unaware of. See here for a more detailed explanation. Essentially, "Rushes To" appears to actually be the instrumental formerly included as the outro of "Rushes", the track beginning with the lyrics "saturdays involved…" is "Higgs" (fka "Rushes To"), and "Mitsubishi Sony" is the final track with Frank on it (fka "Higgs") which goes uncredited on Endless for some reason. I learned of this whole Higgs debacle when I was 95% done with the review, which was a real pain in the ass to change, but I have done so. We still don't know with total certainty this is accurate, but it appears to be the most sensible consensus at the point I am finishing this review so I'll go with it.


Shoutout to the mods for letting me post this despite being late. It was a struggle to get done and I appreciate the patience.

Thanks so much for reading! Please respond, let's discuss!

submitted by /u/SDJ67
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Isaiah Rashad on Twitter: " No mo projects every 2 yrs. I'ma hang with y'all for a while this chapter"

Posted: 03 Apr 2017 06:15 PM PDT

[FRESH] Desiigner - Up

Posted: 03 Apr 2017 08:05 PM PDT

[FRESH VIDEO] Travis Scott - Goosebumps ft. Kendrick Lamar

Posted: 03 Apr 2017 09:18 AM PDT

[FRESH] Desiigner - Thank God I Got It

Posted: 03 Apr 2017 08:05 PM PDT

Kendrick Lamar & ScHoolboy Q engage in advanced hand to hand combat

Posted: 03 Apr 2017 07:21 PM PDT

[FRESH] Noname NPR Tiny Desk Concert

Posted: 03 Apr 2017 07:07 AM PDT

[FRESH] Desiigner - Holy Ghost

Posted: 03 Apr 2017 08:07 PM PDT

Daily Discussion Thread 04/03/2017

Posted: 03 Apr 2017 04:55 PM PDT

Welcome to the /r/hiphopheads daily discussion thread!

This thread is for:

  • objective questions with right/wrong answers (e.g. "Does anyone know what is happening with MIXTAPE?", "What is the sample in SONG?")
  • general hip-hop discussion
  • meta posts...e.g. ideas for the sub

Thread Guidelines

  • Do not create a separate self post for these types of discussions outside of this thread - if you do, your post will be removed.

  • Please be helpful and friendly.

  • If a question has been asked many times before, provide a link to a thread that contains the answer.

Other ways to interact

There are a number of other ways to interact with other members of HHH:

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[FRESH] Zane Lowe & Travis Scott Interview

Posted: 03 Apr 2017 12:21 PM PDT

Drake - More Life Album/Playlist Review | DEHH

Posted: 03 Apr 2017 07:39 PM PDT

Drake to star in British drama Top Boy after buying the rights to the show

Posted: 03 Apr 2017 04:23 AM PDT

[FRESH] - Gucci Mane - Drop Top Wizop Freestyle (Prod. Murda Beatz)

Posted: 03 Apr 2017 11:24 AM PDT

Kendrick Lamar pranks Jay Rock live on-air

Posted: 03 Apr 2017 12:58 PM PDT

Freddie Gibbs - 20 Karat Jesus

Posted: 03 Apr 2017 07:49 AM PDT

Kendrick Lamar & Rick Rubin Interview

Posted: 03 Apr 2017 07:25 AM PDT

New Danny Brown "Behind the Scenes with Danny and Gus Van Sant" from Ain't it Funny video

Posted: 03 Apr 2017 12:31 PM PDT

Kendrick Lamar - She Needs Me (Remix) Ft. Dom Kennedy & Murs

Posted: 03 Apr 2017 12:45 PM PDT

Killer Mike hears "Hey Kids(Bumaye)" instrumental for the first time.

Posted: 03 Apr 2017 10:39 AM PDT

Frank Ocean Is Not Your Symbol

Posted: 03 Apr 2017 02:17 PM PDT

Mos Def -- MF DOOM's biggest fan

Posted: 03 Apr 2017 04:43 PM PDT

Toronto rapper Robin Banks hospitalized in shooting last night

Posted: 03 Apr 2017 05:42 PM PDT

Frank Ocean - Nikes (Normal Pitch)

Posted: 03 Apr 2017 01:45 PM PDT

TDE - "Ab-Soul Ain't EATIN'"

Posted: 03 Apr 2017 07:33 PM PDT

Sneaker Shopping with Joey Bada$$

Posted: 03 Apr 2017 07:10 AM PDT

Noname - Shadow Man (ft Saba, Smino & Phoelix)

Posted: 03 Apr 2017 07:41 PM PDT